The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Will this hurt the trani? Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. Tenth 0.64 And Sonnax doesnt even offer a forged clutch piston for the TMBX there just isnt any demand for one. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? * WILL ALLOW USE . In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". 1. Ford describes their two different shift strategies as single and double step shifts. What came first: the chicken or the egg? Thank you. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the: Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 6L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications. One common 6l80 issue due to design flaws include premature clutch failure. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. Ninth 0.69 Hi Jeff, This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . Cart But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. This took the dealership a much longer period of time in acquiring these bolts for Brian to complete the job. Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. This transmission is out of a Tur. Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. Always appreciate the great exchanges. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. ! You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. Eighth 0.85 Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . ASK FOR CHAD - Freight Shipping - 90 Day Warranty. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. Most of us have either seen or heard of the new 10-speed transmission Ford is offing behind the 2.3L EcoBoost, 2.7L V6, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L gas, and 3.0L Power Stroke Diesel engines. This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. Its the best of both worlds. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. 6L80E Torque Converter Power Raptor Full Size Non-Billet Number 88-6L80-1, now with Billet Cover Option. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. Indirectly affects shift control. Even though it has two more gears, creative packaging allows the 10L80 transmission to be no bigger or heavier than an 8L90 or 6L90. Reactions: me32. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. Im thinking 3.73. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. Honda CR-V Hybrid Racer Is an 800-HP Test Bed. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. Put simply, its the converter. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. $ 439.00 Select options. Special engine computer programming strategies may be required. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. Note, all models will have a warmer. Thanks Jeff. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. You can scribe numbers on them from 1-6 if you choose for a quick reminder of their location. Drivability concerns are confirmed, and the pan is chock full of debris. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. In fact, the only 2017 model year vehicle that still comes with this transmission is the Chevrolet SS. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. Its good for a 12.69 @ 111 mph in cool dry weather.I go down the track with the lock up switch off. It does not have a direct 1:1 ratio like the 4L80E and 4L60E, which is worth noting. Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. LT). Unlike the 4L60E and 4L80E, the 6L80 is not always referred to as with the E on the end because its been over 25 years since the last non electronic GM transmission has been in production. With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. Wait 1 second. Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes.
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