He made a lucrative living and lived what I would call a lavish lifestyle (higher standard of living than every single person in my church, for example), and he did it all with Jesus. I want to know what is so bad about the church and why people dislike it. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation). But I am surprised he delivered his message from on high the pulpit. If so you may be onto something. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. FTR Hillsong is also Assemblies of God. He has not shown himself capable of being trusted with that sort of ministry in the first place. re: Lindells article. Let me look it up. I'm in on that. Maybe the apostles did not want to be found by a major persecutor of the movement and Saul/Paul had no alternative but to put some distance between himself and his previous life until things calmed down a bit. I said some decent things, but one can and probably ought to take that with a grain of salt. Now I am working on something for Monday. I am not the most wonderful guy in the world, i am not a saint, but when i asked Jesus to forgive me and fill me with His Spirit i changed inside. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: vengance is where you make someone pay. And yes, Baptists and other evangelicals have evolved to believing similar using other methods of mediation for people. Associating with Driscoll might make them feel younger and edgy. Why exiles dont speak out is a strange phenomenon. Here are just some of the phrases he uses as he shares the story. The only two ways that I can think of for having said benchmarks, assuming by leadership you mean pastor(s) and not just chairman of some committee, is either having a system with central authority with established criteria which must be met prior to ordination and some written policies which are grounds for dismissal in certain conditions, That would be a denominational hierarchical system with designated people with authority and with something in writing, like an official book of how we do it. Or else to have a savvy and informed and mature congregation who would agree with and co-operate with each other on what was necessary and what needed done and which would have the actual power (backing of the people) to get it done. None of them see anything wrong with this. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. He needs to start small, out of the public eye, not in front of thousands. one had an alcohol problem 3 years ago and one has a drug problem that recently occured due to overprescribing of pain medication turned to street drug use. Its America and hes free to do that if he wishes, but its not proper, again, IMO. Why dont Driscoll and the boyz just get it over with and rename their religion Paulianity? Doing well as opposed to what? A large percentage of modern evangelical mega-churchianity is beyond comprehenshion. They are used to being believed no matter what they say. What a waste of a ministry! That does not mean you want harm to come to them. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. Sopy Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. There could be some better teaching on this but too many appear to receive their teaching from celebrity pastors who then take advantage of them. I dont think many realize that in order to have real repentance they would have to give all that up. I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. If I were Satan I would give the Wormwood who came up with that system a big raise (or give away their books so theyd get a fat royalty check ; ). (I saw a guy do this on a live stage in England once, on a YouTube video. If one other person had confirmed my concerns then I would not have pushed my data points aside as just being something only I had an issue with. So, basically he functioned as Howard Stern for Christians. Vulgarity and filth get fed to us little by little until we hardly notice weve ignored those first red flags and become part and parcel of the heresy. Over the next two Sundays he will continue to remind people to vote Yes and to take a Yes sign for their yard. A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. Has he asked them to forgive him? Great observation! I hope more will speak up in the future. was paul asking for forgiveness? Is this similar to Radical Chic? All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card. Pun intended. They really believe that God has anointed the leaders to lead them. actually, i still think mark has a phenomena called mixture of spirits that derek prince wrote about. You are doing exactly what you accuse the bloggers of. If others havent heard this song yet, give it a try and see what you think. You can learn a lot about someones character from how they treat those who are below them in status. Same deal with Driscoll, just a different sound track. Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. Che Guevera was a die hard Communist who actively conspired with the Soviet Union to turn America into a long nuclear winter landscape that would put Winterfell to shame. @ sam: My guess is that their Calvinism isnt the root problem here. The teachings of Christ are based on love and forgiveness, and I will not write off Mark as a person simply because of the things that people have said about him, a small minority of people signing a petition or statements he has made many years ago for which he has since repeatedly apologised, Houston said. Many others voiced their concerns about the images coming out of the church over the weekend, including Springfield-Greene County Health Director Clay Goddard, who said he was shocked by what he saw considering Missouri currently has more than 328,000 cases of the virus and no less than 4,358 deaths since the pandemic began. Very simple. Not me, not you, and definitely not Mark Driscoll. I think its much the same thing. How far can a pastor go in preaching the gospel when it comes to a political issue? Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? Given how media savvy Hillsong is (yes, even here in Australia!) His auto suggestive words were a dead give away! 21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. Silly me! @ Gus: He was not participating in stonings. . since we are all clergy??? stephen is suffering for doing right. I arrived a little late here, and this has likely already been mentioned (I havent read all comments). This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. "The mayor was not in favor of this ordinance," Lindell told his congregation. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. He saw it as bad government.". Stephens, in my opinion, has gone to great lengths to keep his position on the ordinance incomprehensible. Van, I agree with Deb. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. Does it lie with Driscoll/Chandler or does it lie with the people whom they want to trust them? Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? Our model gets smarter over time as more people share salaries on Glassdoor. Lindell reused the Robert Morris line of chiding his congregation to stop shooting the wounded. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. I just do not understand this focus on hoping Christians leaders will actually and finally act like Christians when everything they have been involved with and built looks nothing like Jesus Christ. Sometimes the writers have an agenda, at others, there is more of an assumption of knowledge that the original readers/hearers possessed that we dont. your post is so right LT, the whole post, and it really needs to be said again and again. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. like i said it went away from that and i didnt look into why. Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! Even if youre looking at Christianity from a strictly business like mindset, I dont see how its good marketing or profitable to do the sexist shtick. He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. These are the views of Steve Pokin, the News-Leader's columnist. IMO they are not qualified to interpret the Bible. And Shifting the Blame. I study a lot of the giant DFW megas but most of my data is still filtered through the Gateway lens. Thanks for the link i want to read more of the writers work. Dont you want to be a part of that? He needs to clean up the mess that he made. But here is the underlying issue: we in evangelical Christianity have become so good at eisogeting the scriptures (reading ourselves into the story) it has gotten to the point of narcissism, or as one preacher puts it, narcigesis., Dont believe me? Reverend Mark Driscoll has sinned before many witness, this had been profusely and laboriously documented, and is to be rebuked before all. have caused me to go into a major identity crisis, what i thought were well meaning however slightly misguided churches and some of the right wing christian patriots are not who or what i thought they were. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. Posted by NancyAlcorn at 1:06 PM 2 comments. How can a reasonable person look past that? You will hear the Velcro bar/connect center mentioned several times in each service. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. No body guards. James River Kids is the children's ministry of James River Church. Driscoll has been more than a jerk, he has shown the inability to hold power without abusing it. Analogously, there are certain qualities that police forces screen for, to hopefully screen out bullies who want a uniform. the money that was supposed to be going to missionaries in another country had been intertwined with the general fund. The reason for this is that he wept, his remorse was written on his face for months and he still is remorseful, he didnt once make any excuse for his behavior, he accepted responsiblility and reached out to the family of the victim. He said it makes sense that the word "sin" would appear multiple times in a Biblical discussion of homosexuality. It is certainly understandable we would see it differently. But Peter rebuked him for his motives and told him to repent of his wickedness and told him he was gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity.. When that donor eventually supported our decision to leave peaceably, Jamie Munson was in a pickle. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. Within a few months most of the members of Mars Hill Church withdrew their support of orphans under our care. Missouri church service Saturday evening. sam wrote: Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? Mark is playing the victim. He dropped the moral bar for both pulpit and pew that has far reaching consequences on the way we do church. If his values were disdained he would have a far better chance of turning away from the corruption that has engulfed his life so far. Did you miss a tithe payment? "I do not think, frankly, it is a matter of your business or Mr. Lindell's business or even my wife's business," Stephens told me. Ill talk to you more tomorrow, so dont forget to check back! Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. Hadnt considered that a pastor would brainwash to that length. Marc turned the offer down and we received the letter from Scott Thomas shortly thereafter. 20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. So quick question if anyone wants to take a whack at it. actually getting behind the wheel of a car again will probably be the hardest thing he does, if he ever even wants to drive again. The reason why I answered like that is because most of this stuff goes on because the pew sitters are not actively involved in the church operatons and are not demanding openess and transparancy of staff and leaders. We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; If Mark Driscoll is going to wanna manipulate his 501(c)3 Church audience to give him a second chance, hes gonna havta try harder. . ( a stage really ) Same old spin .different tune. Im a done for now but that one meeting made we wonder if I could someday find a narrow gate church like the cult expert said. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. I assumed that it was just me and 25,000 other people had no issue. I believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. They sing and wave their arms and hug and praise other givers. . if mark is not truly repentant, (which is totally conceivable since he has never apologized for anything except being too unkind in firing people and running people into the ground under his God given authority) then this could be compared, (by sin levelers who will be quick to show up here and defend him)this could be compared to Jordan Root getting right back in the mission field and preaching about what happens when women and heathens in the press persecute godly people accused of child porn addictions with no evidence. Those ones arent even on the path. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? I think older people ignored the bad boy Driscoll because he seemed to be reaching the young people. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. The Rev. No ownership and everyone else is to blame. Its the same game he has played. actually Jesus spoke to people He had healed early in His ministry and told them not to tell everyone, they did anyway and He spent the rest of His ministry having crowds pressing against Him and having to go hide sometimes. Wonder what else is in the Acts29 playbook that we havent seen yet! Join us for life-giving worship, encouraging stories and testimonies, and a powerful message from Pastor John. Pastors who give Mark Driscoll a platform are adding to the abuse of those of us who were abusively treated by Mars Hill Church. ), Odd how we often tend to read these things as definitive acvounts, when in reality, there are hints of many other things that go unmentioned. I want to have the heart for the women in the future who will allow me to be their pastor that I have for my daughters, he said, and that is if they have spiritual gifts, and are called by God, and are godly, I want to help them achieve that intentionally and encourage that and be a support for that.. I suppose they could have been made up, although the accounts are supported by numerous descriptions of his pig like behavior. I really do believe that Driscoll has sociopathic tendencies. Pews are in the old megas. If any blogger made such a vague blanket statement as this theyd be called out immediately. It is possible for somebody who has a cutting tongue and a big mouth to stop. @ numo: signed, Still Looking, first i wasnt refering to anything lindell wrote but only his intro for mark driscoll because i have never read anything he wrote and dont want to. They just have to shamelessly scam more money in the name of Jesus. He was an abusing thug. James River Assembly hosted a Christmas pageant last December in the midst of the covid pandemic. Its just that it isnt what a NT pastor of a group of Christians should be doing. (remembering marks sermon about mark being king) jesus is seated and he stands up for stephen. GW youth group also adopted the whole Tribes deal directly from Hillsong, complete with competing tribes wearing war paint and carrying weapons. Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. Others appear to draw some type of inspiration from Driscoll. (WARNING: Includes graphic language), American news sources didn't waste much time alerting their readers of this development. (?) Here is Stephen facing public opposition. (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) In 2002, Agathos began as a ministry to rescue orphans in Africa during the peak of the out-of-control HIV/AIDS crisis. Christian County has unfortunately seen an overwhelming rise in COVID-19 cases over the past several weeks and a subsequent increase in the number of hospitalized residents. Mark flatly denied it, but I believe we may be seeing a pattern here. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And I saw it. Youre not one of us. I agree that if the object is to fill seats and keep the money flowing in, then Driscoll and the others are doing a great job. I have read both accounts that Che was short for Chancho and also a play on his habitually calling everyone che which is slang for pal/friend etc. Hillsong church head Brian Houston accused alleged child abuse victim of tempting father, inquiry told, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783128/Hillsong-church-founder-offered-sex-abuse-victim-10000-meeting-McDonalds-restaurant.html. The kid starts expecting it. However, you are on to something with the radical chic concept. ". I felt physically ill when I saw them. Is this similar to Radical Chic? 99,693 were here. James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas Mencken: No one in this world, so far as I know and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. and humility i think is something that is a mark of a true christian that cant be faked, it always looks fake when people try to do that. They didnt fail. Hospitable, Self-controlled, Holy, Disciplined, above reproach, Not quarrelsome, not violent but gentle. their ministry grew and even people that werent christians were thankful for them. So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. As the CEO of MHC was MD completely unaware of what was going on with the Global Fund? 1 point: homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible, and Christians should vote for repeal. I am always eager and willing to learn, so no argument here. "It was clear to me that Mark's attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose of Hillsong Conference, which is to see people leave encouraged in their own spiritual journey.". Membership Covenants Even if Houston hadnt properly researched before the demise of MH, surely he must have learned something to have made the decision to downgrade MD from speaker to interviewee. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. Certainly, or we are no better than he is. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. his heart is revealed by the countenance of his face. (I guess angles smile a lot) But the Pipers, Mohlers, Akins and others saw him as someone really catching the attention of the young guystheir followers. Kids will experience life-giving messages and TONS of fun as they watch content created just for them. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/. I have read many accounts that his nickname throughout life was el chancho (pig). Except we now know Mark didnt actually write he books he used ghost writers and plagiarized, but minor details, an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. Now the floodgates will open wide now that his massive deception becomes public knowledge in Australia and the UK. perhaps, assuming cunning strategy on the part of MD and Mark Demoss: *this sector of christainworld is the path of least resistance (especially since from others comments the YRR/reformed world has disowned him). An awful lot of people are having to do the exact same thing. If there is one thing I think is missing from the entire narrative of interpreting scripture it is the theme of wisdom running through it from Genesis on. jesus example they put a robe on him a mockery of his kingship. You make an interesting comparison. He can be reached at 836-1253, spokin@gannett.com, on Twitter @stevepokinNL or by mail at 651 N. Boonville, Springfield, MO 65806. It could be that they are as ignorant as I once was, but it makes me distrust their judgment and discernment and dislike them all the same. Driscoll does not meet the biblical qualifications to be a preacher. What am I saying? Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. he smiles and there is love in his heart. 4 Ways of Discerning If You Have Left Jesus Behind. Your comment about magic words reminded me of Simon the Magician in Acts who was so popular and had all kinds of attention because of his magic performances. He faces re-election April 7. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. LT: Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. But we dont know yet for sure. luke was paul's dr and paul was luke's pastor. Working at James River is never be boring because of the mission that you are pursuing and the amazing things that you get to be a part of. I know how hard false teaching is to bear. In many ways, Barnabus is like Pauls pastor for a time. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. Just some thoughts to consider. Only the hero. Or is it just a GW thing? jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. "Nor is it outside the parameters of a gospel ministry. In his case, trust had to be earned, for obvious reasons. As far as people moving into ministry later in life, one would hope they had left that life behind and were new creations in Christ. your comments are great. There were a number of other worship songs that roll on after this one, if these are your taste. And did he threaten to punch Pastor Lindell in the nose and throw him under the bus if he wasnt given the gig? I still dont think he understands the harms he has done. vinegar is disinfectant for wiping yourself. This is largely shielded from television audiences who only view a heavily edited 22 minute message. . If not, why not? When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. @ sam: Actually are pews still in general use? I dont beleive that for a moment. He set himself up as King of Acts 29 and operated with no accountability at Mars Hill. In 1969, he was transferred to a church in Fairmont, W.Va. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. ++++++++++++++++. Its a professional, corporate institutional model based on an unbiblical clergy/ laity distinction. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. Here is the gist of Driscolls message: its all about me and Im a martyr for the faith!, Same old Driscoll, full of male bovine meadow muffins. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm Interestingly, he chose the title of his message to be 'Paul the Forgiven' and goes on to say that Paul has a name change because of a life change. starting to act animalistic the resistance is increasing, how will stephen respond?. (he is still famous and worthy of famous people helping him) things you have heard about mark are not even close to true, what you read on the internet isn't true. This weekend GW is also doing Steven Furtick spontaneous baptism which are executed to the letter like Elevation. i have seen so much of what you wrote about to know that it is true, a big orchestrated show to fleece sheep and get fame. Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. Your California Privacy Rights / Privacy Policy. Anyone who knowingly overlooks all this has no judgement. He was a mass murdering thug. They were perceived as mediators between the person and Christ. How can they do that? well this world is full of executives that get caught in sin and crime and immorality that give wonderful speeches of how sorry they are and then they turn around and get a promotion and never give a single thought to the people they destroyed on their way to the top. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. One of the most chilling doctrines out of Calvinism is using Paul for this purpose. pic.twitter.com/Wt6wZOdE9J. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. He could continue the stance that we could not leave because we were under discipline and offend the large donor, or he could let us leave in peace and not offend the donor.
