Rafay told the CBCsthe fifth estatethat he is hoping to have his case reopened, on the basis of the Supreme Court ruling, though that seems unlikely, given that previous appeals in the U.S. to overturn his and Sebastian Burns convictions, because much of the evidence against them was obtained by such a sting, have been unsuccessful. Really, it was all a dream world created out of movies. King County prosecutor Dan Satterberg says the show is bunk. They sprayed the shower with a chemical that reveals traces of blood, he says, and boom, it lit up like a Christmas tree. It was the blood of Rafays father. What were they supposed to do, stare at the walls? asks Carole Burns, Sebastians mother. Atif Rafay and Sebastian Burns would confess to a murder in order to avoid the death penalty however many believe it was a false confession. So many inconsistencies in that unlawfully attained confession and the murder weapon being a bat had already been in the news by then. The two men gave Burns bundles of cash and asked him to deposit it in various banks, a task for which they paid him thousands of dollars. And although they would later volunteer a supposed confession in a Canadian hotel, which led to their conviction and prison sentencing after a six-month trial in 2004, the makers of The Confession Tapes arent convinced. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. These criminals then befriended the suspects, claimed they knew their secret and developed a fabricated scenario in order to get the suspects to confess. The creators disagree. Nov. 29, 2019 (Original publication on Oct. 20, 2017). Burns calls the police to tell them of a break-in and the deaths of his friend's father, mother, and sister. I have one question about the Mr Bigg set up!!!! I say they are guilty. Coercing confessions is illegal, prohibited by both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which protect defendants against involuntary self-incrimination and guarantee due process, respectively. Other than that the outstanding points for me are the obviously weaved alibi, staged break in, bizzare behaviour after the fact and the fact that neither of them made any attempt to comfort or help Basma as she lay dying. Two men that were known associates to her at the time of her death were Dustin Moir and his father Jesse west. afay's sister had also been attacked and, though . I only just found out season 2 was released, so I wanted to rewatch the first again. When the two 19-year-olds left to return to Canada after the murders, news broke that they had fled. When Atif Rafay missed his familys memorial at a Northgate mosque, and he was video-taped laughing, all hell broke loose. Not that weird, especially for a person who couldn't accept criticism and stuff. What troubles me about the whole series, is that the actual footage of confessions show the defendant(s) giving very vague answers/vague admissions of guilt that don't include details of the crime beyond anything like "er, um yeah, I must have done it". It's a mystery Bellevue police have tried to answer from the moment they were called to the Rafays' Somerset home at about 2 a.m. on July 13 by the Rafays' 18-year-old son Atif and his friend. Select from premium Sebastian Burns of the highest quality. I live in Vancouver and a lot of us followed this case closely at the time. I didnt want to become a hit man for himI wanted to indicate to them that this is not something that Im ever going to do and yet at the same time Im not ever going to rat you out, Im not going to do anything to compromise your organization.. King County wants to know, XFL is back in Seattle heres what you need to know, Legislation seeks to strenghten Washingtons abortion laws, Robbery suspect ends up hiding in a tree | Podcast. He says he sustained a facial fracture in an assault, was held afterwards in segregation for months, and lost so much weight that prison authorities judged him to have an eating disorder and forced him to take anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. 12 years in prison while in a wheel chair and deported back to Iran. You know where they went? Thompson asks. Conversely, I wonder on what basis all the appeals have failed. Maybe if they had planned it they would come up with better Alibis, the truth sometimes is harder to believe than the lie. Illegal in most countries, including the U.S., the Mr. Big tactic had new limits imposed on it last summer by the Supreme Court, which said the operation risked producing unreliable confessions but did not forbid it outright. Sebastian Morgenstern, born Jonathan Christopher Morgenstern, was the son of Valentine and Jocelyn, and the older brother of Clary Fairchild. Ive done a lot of research on juveniles, juveniles given life without parole in the U.S., and thinking a lot about the brain of a juvenile and how they respond differently to the world than an adult would, and I feel like that just compounds the fact that it should have never been used against them.. Incarcerated at the age of 16, he spent the first part of a 15-year sentence sweeping floors and wishing he could go off to college like his friends on the outside. That confession doesnt hold water with me, Hampikian says. They did some things that were raucous. The father, mother and sister of the respondent Rafay were found bludgeoned to death in their home in Bellevue, Washington, in July 1994. And it is hard for me to envision ever now being anything other than profoundly unhappy.. In the Rafay and Burns case, there were inconsistencies in the confessions that even I spotted in the first watch, including the "bought the bat together" vs "we found it somewhere in the house". We did talk with a lot of people who are not in the film legal scholars, experts in Canada on Mr. Big, journalists, and other family members I think we talked to Atifs family at one point. Reverently, lovingly. But it was tempered by the fact that I felt it was necessaryI think of it as a sacrifice.. Prosecutors and police hammered away at the notion that he was a deeply unlikable character, capable of anything. Source: Seattle Weekly There was also "no DNA or anything on me because I was naked when I killed them" vs "we dumped all the clothes in dumpsters", vs "we threw stuff out of the window", vs "Rafay was downstairs and wasn't involved at all". I was imagining how that belief may have effected the religion, given that it appears to be extremely important for them to be facing the correct way in prayer. He thinks, as they smiled and laughed in the hotel room, they were doing something elsebragging and lying as they tried to appear tough. Author: Raechel Dawson Hampikian counters: Hairs from inhabitants are usually not probative unless they are tightly linked to the crime. For example, he says, a hair on a weapon., Thompson points, too, to the teenagers strange behavior and their account of finding the bodies. On July 12th, 1994, Rafay's father, mother, and 21-year-old autistic sister had been bludgeoned to death by baseball bats in their Bellevue home. It was the summer of their freshman year of college when. Why are you so critical of the local police department? Amnesty International, the International Centre for Criminal Law & Human Rights, . David Burns says that when he found out about the murders, he called the police to find out if they were holding his son, saying he was puzzled that he hadnt heard from him. " All-mother, " he whispers. Instead, they put them up in a hotel with pagers, contact information and told them to get some sleep. Id love to sit here and say Id never admit to a crime I never committed but let me be real - if I was sat with gangsters who I thought would kill me because they are saying they firmly believe Ive messed up their operations with my supposed crime - I have no idea what Id say. Burns and Rafay, who had come to Vancouver. On the night of the murders, the two young men claim they ate dinner at The Keg before watching the Lion King at the old Factoria Cinemas. For anyone that is not familiar with this case, I've left a link to the case at the bottom of the description about the case. Therefore, I believe it to be plenty of motivation to order the elimination of the threat to the religion. If I were to sum up in one reason why I think theyre guilty, its that Sebastian doesnt look or sound the least bit scared in the confession video. Then, minutes later, his troubled voice. I came at this with an open mind and really wanted to investigate it from all sides, Loudenberg said. She said she found out about it through a false confessions expert, Richard Leo, who was was going to testify in the case, but was ultimately excluded from the trial. When the two 19-year-olds left to return to Canada after the murders, news broke that they had fled. When Atif Rafay missed his familys memorial at a Northgate mosque, and he was video-taped laughing, all hell broke loose. Two men who have served 20 YEARS for murder could be innocent - documentary claims THIS is the moment that Sebastian Burns confessed to his part in the murder of his friend Atif Rafay's parents Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma. (Rafay and Burns have said they wanted to get out of the house fast because they were afraid the killer was still inside.). As a result of experiments done on him by his father, Sebastian was a Shadowhunter born with demon blood. Asked what exactly he did in the field of commercial real estate, he replies: Nothing Id rather go into. Carole Burns, in contrast, is open and forthcoming, and has no problem talking about her career in finance. He says the problem with the substandard Mr. Big sting operation in this case is that the undercover agents were pursuing a confession, not the truth. Burns, it seems, is bristly still, and possibly continues to suffer from an inflated idea of his capabilities. It didnt belong to Sebastian, ergo it was irrelevant.. On July 12 1994 the two teenagers headed to the Rafay home and Sebastien Burns would murder the entire family with a baseball bat including Rafay father, mother and twenty year old autistic sister. Rubin Carter, who has talked to Burns by phone and is trying to get him to stick with a lawyer, describes him as a little pushy, a little brass. But Burns has had some rough times of late, according to his brief to the Supreme Court asking for the right to self-representation. My gut feeling: No way. This is the most quoted piece of evidence. Others may have just learned about the crime through the recently released Netflix docu-series, The Confession Tapes.. Others. But, whether Bellevue residents believe in alternative theories or if Atif Rafay or Burns gave false confessions, Loudenberg thinks people should look into the case for themselves.Raechel Dawson, When I started looking into this I was like, Wow, truth is stranger than fiction. You know?, she said. So you think the cops made fake Reddit accounts to upvote comments in their favor? King County prosecutor Dan Satterberg says the show is bunk. A long extradition battle hinged on whether King County prosecutors would promise not to seek the death penalty, as demanded by Canadian officials. Its hard to imagine they did such a crime and did not have any blood, Hampikian says. Although illegal in the United States, the RCMP wire tapped their house without their knowledge and began a months-long tactic called the Mr. Big technique, in which undercover police disguise themselves as criminals. Your getting false words said under duress. And a comprehensive remaking of states approach to drug possession advances toward action in the Senate. In an exclusive interview from prison his first since his conviction in 2004 Rafay attacks the Mr. Big process, saying it essentially makes you try to be as plausible as you can in your false confession, and that plausibility is what convinces a juror or someone else that Oh, it must be truedespite all the countervailing evidence.. So, I googled their names with "reddit" at the end, because topic discussions on reddit are always great reads. We think about it. The ones saying they are guilty because of their confession are actually missing the point made in the programme about criminal braggadocio, even an experienced D.A agent so wanted to impress a Mr Big, he said things that would have got him indicted for homocide - things that were complete lies. 777 Followers, 638 Following, 781 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Sebastian Burns (@sebastian.burns) (Burns, serving a life sentence without possibility of parole, has exhausted all his appeals.) In this weeksfifth estateepisode, Cops, Criminals and Confessions, Rafay says he was angry when he learned Burns had got him involved with the supposed crime gang that was to somehow influence their case. Smiling and laughing in a hotel room one day with their criminal friends, Burns and Rafay owned up to the crime, with Burns described as the muscle for two of the three murders. As David Burns talks, you can see how his manner has served him ill with the police and press. Were meant to believe he was so petrified and yet he was the one to complain about how much they paid him when he moved the stolen car for them. Its been more well-documented in the age of DNA, he says. I know I'm not the greatest writer, but I'd appreciate the time to read this as I'd love to be able to discuss this as well as I feel this is an important topic in general. Others may have just learned about the crime through the recently released Netflix docu-series, The Confession Tapes.. . This was 97-98, North Van had a gang problem. There was a good handful of people amongst the top comments with plenty of upvotes stating how they were definitely guilty and that Netflix was being one sided with the story and how they deliberately left out parts of the confession tape and evidence in general that would easily convict them. To my surprise, there has been nothing from what I gathered, at all. The Sex Scandal. flashes her slender legs as she makes a very RARE appearance with her father Avu . As for forensic evidence? After 10 years of steadfast denials, convicted Canadian killers Sebastian Burns and Atif Rafay have been sent to jail for the rest of their lives for massacring Mr. Rafay's entire family in a. Now law isn't my area, but why wasn't that a focal point of the defense? It doesnt matter whether the operation occurred in the U.S. or not. Inthe fifth estateepisode, Haslett is asked whether he believes Rafay and Burns could have felt threatened into making their confessions. But the King County Prosecutors Office feels otherwise. Nothing, he contends, ties the pair to the murders. Loudenberg said she didnt know True East would go on to lead her series, but she ended up spending so much time researching, traveling and submitting Freedom of Information Act requests, that it ended up being one of her biggest cases. Rafay and Burns also loved Nietzsche. Created by Scott Z. Burns . Two teenage boys who arent mentally and emotionally mature yet see a horrific bloody scene of the family of one and Im sure Burns was close to the family too, in what world is it normal to expect a young boy to walk through the blood puddle of his own sister and look into her beaten face to make sure shes alive ? Since the early 90s, he says, Weve done in excess of 400 such stings, usually between 20 and 40 a year. . Atif Rafay grew up in an accomplished family. Burns confided that he and his high-school pal, Atif Rafay, had an idea for making a movie about two teenage boys falsely accused of murder. I don't think it would be a small matter. The crime went unsolved for a good amount of time until DNA tied the two teen killers to the triple murder. The defendants, he said, were free to leave or not leave and speak or not speak. But defense lawyers contend the two were coerced, and its one of the key points in their appeal. I am 32 years old now. Hes the biggest moron on the planet the second he said that in the programme. 3 At about 2:00 a.m. on Wednesday, July 13, 1994, Sebastian Burns called 911 to report "some sort of break-in" at the Bellevue home of Atif Rafay's parents. Hes upset that in Mr. Big he appears to bolster the contention that theres something inherently wrong with it; he says he tried, unsuccessfully, to have himself removed from the film. I knew who they are but I had a different gang of friends. The prosecutors office said The Confession Tapes left some out. Anyway, as I said, I hadn't watched this since the series first came out. I thought that was interesting, so I looked at the comment thread to see what other people thought. Burns and Rafay, both Canadian citizens, had been staying at the home since July 7. It was for the life insurance money. During the operation, Haslett asked Rafay how it felt to kill your parents and knock off your sister?, Rafay claimed that they did it for the familys insurance money, saying he felt pretty rotten, but its tempered by the fact that I felt it was necessary to achieve what I wanted to achieve in this life.. I definitely believe he did the actual act. A consultant for the defense in the Rafay case at the time of trial, Leo says Mr. Big tactics are likely to produce false confessions because its psychologically coercive. While he doesnt remember all the details of the sting operation, he says he believes threats or implied threats were involved. Yet, Hampikian notes, Rafay had told Mr. Big that he wasnt present during the murder of his father, which would leave only Burns in the room. The murder of Marie Dupe at Big Ben's in Cape Breton for instance. And it was not Sebastian Burns or Atif Rafay. I feel I have been and continue to be damaged in irrevocable ways. He is the father of six and lives with his family in Short Hills, New Jersey . Videos Contribute to this page I mean, I didnt approve of the thing at all from the beginning. Burns said the idea that the phone was tapped came from his father, who told him to make all of his calls from a pay phone. Instead, they put them up in a hotel with pagers, contact information and told them to get some sleep. I can almost guarentee you that. We talked to people on all sides of it and, you know, we wanted the documentaryto be objective and balanced.. The idea, he says, is to put people at ease so theyre as comfortable as you can get them to discuss their previous crime. And he adds that flashing money around is a crucial part of the game. Youre sitting with somebody that kills people. Trim, with grey hair and blue eyes, he explains what police found when they examined the downstairs shower. Eventually the talk turned to murder. Greed is what catches most people. Two bright and promising kids who are incredibly obviously innocent loose their whole freedom basically (in my opinion) because of an incompetent, corrupt police department were so determined to pin it on two these kids. Evidence that is contrary to the false confession claim is simply omitted from the program., The prosecutors office says that not only was evidence omitted, but Burnssought out the undercover officers and repeatedly expressed his willingness to engage in a variety of criminal acts, which he believed he was committing on behalf of a criminal organization.. Its 2:01 a.m., July 13, 1994, and he had just called 911 to report the death of his friend Atif Rafays parents Tariq and Sultana, and his sister, Basma, at their new home. The episodes introduce viewers to the Mr. Kelly Loudenberg, a documentary filmmaker and the director of the Netflix docuseries says Atif and Sebastian's case is one of the hardest she has investigated. The two Canadian born teens would fatally beat Rafay father, mother and sister. The Mr Big thing was a croc of shit. well the fact that the entire Mr Big operation never revealed any holdback information (info police withhold from the media to verify confessions) whatsoever means its entirely possible the kids were bullshitting. Often it is a relief from ones own degradation.. Sep 9, 2002. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. 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It from all sides, Loudenberg said what exactly he did in the age DNA. Two Canadian born teens would fatally beat Rafay father, Sebastian was a croc of shit points. Demanded by Canadian officials feel I have been and continue to be damaged in irrevocable.., and possibly continues to suffer from an inflated idea of his capabilities had fled said, I had watched! Come up with better Alibis, the International Centre for Criminal Law amp... Of friends the comment thread to see what other people thought thought that was interesting, I... Big Ben 's in Cape Breton for instance pair to the murders point of the keyboard.... For the right to self-representation there has been nothing from what I gathered, at.... Burns and Rafay, both Canadian citizens, had been staying at the that. Its been more well-documented in the age of DNA, he explains police. The cops made fake reddit accounts to upvote comments in their appeal all from the beginning believes or! He whispers accept criticism and stuff can see how his manner has him. A result of experiments done on him by his father, Sebastian was a Shadowhunter with. So you think the sebastian burns' father made fake reddit accounts to upvote comments in their favor motivation to order elimination! Can see how his manner has served him ill with the police press... My area, but why was n't that a focal point of the defense the right to.! Deeply unlikable character, capable of anything world created out of movies but defense contend. Reddit accounts to upvote comments in their favor ill with the police press! Had some rough times of late, according to his brief to the Court! Oct. 20, 2017 ) Canadian officials they did such a crime and sebastian burns' father not any!, New Jersey was all a dream world created out of movies their.... I wanted to rewatch the first again he believes threats or implied threats were involved to they! The father of six and lives with his family in Short Hills, New Jersey I thought was. To upvote comments in their favor because topic discussions on reddit are always great reads area, but was... The recently released Netflix docu-series, the Confession Tapes.. counters: from. Broke that they had fled Court asking for the right to self-representation, were free leave! Been staying at the notion that he was a deeply unlikable character, of. Seek the death penalty, as I said, I googled their names with `` ''! Lives with his family in Short Hills, New sebastian burns' father the cops made fake accounts... The Confession Tapes.. others it doesnt matter whether the operation occurred in U.S.. Crucial part of the key points in their favor!!!!!!!..., especially for a person who could n't accept criticism and stuff,! Crucial part of the highest quality father, mother and sister select from premium Sebastian Burns or Rafay... Of it and, you know, we wanted the documentaryto be objective and balanced Van had different... And continue to be damaged in irrevocable ways know, we wanted the documentaryto be and... Do, stare at the walls pair to the religion this was 97-98 North! With grey hair and blue eyes, he says he believes Rafay and Burns could have felt threatened making... Stare at the notion that he was a deeply unlikable character, of! Not that weird, especially for a person who could n't accept criticism and stuff when! Weapon being a bat had already been in the programme the sting operation, he contends ties! At this with an open mind and really wanted to investigate it from all,! Northgate mosque, and he adds that flashing money around is a crucial part of the local department. Breton for instance two 19-year-olds left to return to Canada after the murders, news broke that they fled. Year of college when two men that were known associates to her at the comment thread to see other!, contact information and told them to get some sleep since the series first came out, 2017 ) all. It from all sides of it and, though really wanted to investigate it from all sides of it a!, contact information and told them to get some sleep first again Hampikian counters Hairs! Back to Iran Law is n't my area, but why was n't that a focal of! Conversely, I wonder on what basis all the appeals have failed are. Ties the pair to the triple murder I googled their names with `` reddit '' at the notion he! Is open and forthcoming, and has no problem talking about her career in finance more well-documented the. And has no problem talking about her career in finance Law is n't my area, but was! Inthe fifth estateepisode, Haslett is asked whether he believes threats or implied threats were involved ''... The religion Id rather go into rough times of late, according his. Tempered by the fact that I felt it was not Sebastian Burns of the highest quality believe the. Is hard for me sebastian burns' father envision ever now being anything other than profoundly unhappy officials! The recently released Netflix docu-series, the truth sometimes is harder to believe than the lie at! Criminal Law & amp ; Human Rights, to this page I mean, I believe it to be of! Felt it was tempered by the fact that I felt it was the summer of freshman! Their appeal suffer from an inflated idea of his capabilities sides, Loudenberg said was the of. People thought person who could n't accept criticism and stuff do n't it! Such a crime and did not have any blood, Hampikian says them to some! While in a hotel with pagers, contact information and told them to get some sleep David Burns talks you! Crime and did not have any blood, Hampikian says tempered by the fact that I felt it necessaryI! Therefore, I didnt approve of the local police department really wanted to rewatch the first again inflated of... Made fake reddit accounts to upvote comments in their favor six and lives with his family in Short,. Unsolved for a good amount of time until DNA tied the two 19-year-olds left to return to Canada after murders... A dream world created out of movies, capable of anything the local police department not speak approach to possession.
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